Interesting tweet from Tom Ryan, Head Coach at Ohio St

[Coach Carey]

Thomas Ryan
‏
 
@Buckeye158
 
We need to get rid of stalling. It’s too subjective. Boxing doesn’t have it. We need to remove as much subjectivity as we can. It’s not an incentive. People are not trying harder because of the concern of stalling. Most feel cheated by inconsistent calls. The worlds best attack.

[Coach Atwood]

I wonder if he is referring to college only?  There is plenty of stalling in high school that isn't subjective.  I can see his point more for college wrestling with the rules being different, but high school needs to keep it.

[Ironman152]

Boxings scoring is also much different. I'm usually all on board with coach Ryan but i gotta disagree on this.  In folkstyle wrestling its to easy to coast on a lead. With the emphasis in 3 different positions its way to easy to not do anything keep a match close or get a lead and run away. You would have to alter way to much stuff to eliminate stalling.

[Coach Carey]

I think Coach Ryan is saying that, in what other sport does a ref hand out points?

I am torn on it, but we got to find a way to make it less subjective.  We have all had kids hit for stalling and thought, "what for", and we've all seen kids not be hit for stalling when it's obvious. I posted something earlier in the year about how if we had specific language outlining stalling in certain positions.  For example, it's not stalling on top unless you are directly behind them without boots in.  Or for example, it's not stalling on bottom unless your head is on mat or your arms are tucked in. Or on your feet, there is no stalling unless you are shot out of bounds....If we had less subjective ways to define it, we may or may not have more stalling, but we would certainly have less matches decided by officials.

I saw an official, who I consider to be very good, call stalling on my guy when we shot in trying to secure a major and hung on the leg too long for his liking when trying to finish.  We shot, and gave up a stall warning.  What can't be argued, is that stalling is too subjective.  This isn't meant to be a referee bashing as many are very good at their jobs.
 
I hate stalling just like the next guy, but I want the wrestlers to decide matches, not officials.  The only way to do that is to take the subjectivity out of it, and make it black and white.  Just my 2 cents.

[Longdayrunner]

There is plenty of language in the Rule and Case Books regarding stalling that is specific.  Section 6 Art 1 of the Rule Book gives that specific language you are asking for.  The rest of Section 6 gets into more detail.

The problem is not with the Rule Book, the problem is with the way Officials are trained and the lack of evaluation of Officials.  All of that roles up to the NCHSAA as they are responsible for the Wrestling Regional Supervisors.

[Coach Carey]

Some Stalling rules are very specific and objective, like "illegally holds the heel to the butt while the defensive wrestler is broken down for five seconds".
Others like Art. 3 "is not attempting to secure a takedown" or " does not wrestle aggresively and attempts to secure a fall..." is much more subjective. I like to sit near the refs at the state tournament finals and hear many of the guys respectfully arguing with each other over Stall calls.
If I am trying to turn you, you are trying to prevent me from turning you, and sometimes that is a struggle that get hits with Stalling rather than let it go and see what happens or a Stalemate call.

If you truly enforced stalling, and said "not attempting to secure a takedown" than most matches would have wrestlers be DQ'ed in the first period....that isn't good for the sport neither.  Hand fighting, getting angles doesn't mean you are shooting, but does mean you are trying to get a takedown, but it's sometimes not interpreted that way.
I also see it called different ways within a single match.  I've got one wrestler in mind, and when we score a lot of takedowns in the first and second periods and the opponent doesn't attempt anything and isn't warned for stalling, then in the third, we are a little tired from shooting so much and stall some, and our opponent starts pushing (not shooting) and now we are hit for stalling.  I am ok with being hit for stalling, but why wasn't it wasn't stalling in the first two periods? Because it's subjective opinion of the official.

[Longdayrunner]

All good points mentioned above.  All of those points you raise are training issues.  A comprehensive approach to education and training of officials rather than 8 people doing it their way is what is needed to close the gap in officiating a wrestling match.  That could be said of each sport sponsored by the NCHSAA.  Changing the rules from year to year isn't going to deal with the training issues dealing with officials.

[Ironman152]

All good points mentioned above.  All of those points you raise are training issues.  A comprehensive approach to education and training of officials rather than 8 people during it their way is what is needed to close the gap in officiating a wrestling match.  That could be said of each sport sponsored by the NCHSAA.  Changing the rules from year to year isn't going to deal with the training issues dealing with officials.

Absolutely.  You've got one guy for the state telling multiple regional supervisors how the rules should be called then those guys pass their information down and things get skewed and interpreted differently as theyre passed along.  Need more comprehensive training and take subjectivity out.  Because you still have refs who will say things like I dont like the way that rule is called im calling it differently.  Refs still make their own calls up, even at the state tournament this year I saw refs giving a 5 count on mat returns and signaling with their hand that they were counting.

[Longdayrunner]

The sad thing is there is only one instance, in the rule book, where a visual 5 second hand count is stated/written and that is dealing with the 3 point near falls.  Even the 5 second count for stalling when the defensive man is broken down on the mat and heal of the foot is controlled by placing it on the butt of the defensive wrestling is not a visual count (by the rule book).

What you stated above could be corrected by having written evaluations at the State Individual Tournament and cutting officials each round/day with low evaluations.  You don't need 30 officials calling the finals.  You only need the officials who are having a great tournament call the finals.

You can't have 8 rule interpreters.  It wasn't that long ago where the NCHSAA came to each Wrestling Official's Association and did the annual rules clinics. And in those clinics you could ask questions and get explanations.   

Can anyone explain why that stopped?